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Mike Smith's avatar

I see the is-ought problem as best described as just that, a problem, one that Hume identified.

But Matti, I think my question here is, do the insights you've found studying Putnam and the others now allow you to logically justify a value only from empirical data? If so a demonstration of that, or a citation of a successful attempt, seems like it would be very interesting.

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Wyrd Smythe's avatar

I've long thought Hume was dead wrong on causality, so it's easy for me to see he's dead wrong here. I've been sympathetic to your thesis from the beginning.

I like your notion of framing ethics as a science of the facts of human existence, especially as reflected in our language. Our language is such a deep rabbit hole. I think at least a weak form of Whorf-Sapir is likely true. Language enables thought, so our vocabulary is key on several levels.

Here's a question your posts raised for me: An alien species, or even a long-isolated human group, would evolve their own normative language and social fabric. Is there an absolute moral "attractor" in the space of all possible normative social fabrics, or is the evolved result entirely arbitrary?

My interest is in whether there are Platonic ideals for morality (Plato's Good) akin to the ideal math forms we find. If so, radically different social groups, even alien ones, should converge on these. What seems common to both our views here is the role intelligence plays. There clearly is no morality in the physics of reality — Hume's brute facts. Nor is it in the plant kingdom and most would agree nor in the animal kingdom. Save for humanity. It seems intelligence confers upon us some notion of The Good, and I'm curious just how absolute that might be. Is intelligence itself the seed from which morality springs?

That could have interesting implications for true AGI.

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